Comments of the two outsiders of 05 Links

 The development of Chinese capitalism is not a political observation
mm Comments of the two outsiders of four
C: man walked forward, there is no way out, or hit a wall, looking back to looking inevitable . In 1995, the scholars concerned with political situation seems to be in that state. They began to look back 49 years ago Communist That battle. .. Perhaps we can explore today's victory was the ruling ingenuity it. this one One is Hu Sheng, who is the authority of party history, a long position from the Academy of Social Sciences stepped down before his death, there is a talk about about: liberation, anti-Japanese, the KMT during this period, ... are the minority, community center and no clear tendency of power. KMT forces in the fight for the support of this intermediate, and a higher low, .. overcome . The results ... the middle of the middle forces gradually backward to give the reason why the KMT forces, because the power of the initiative to go at the middle of the capitalist road, the ruling Kuomintang did not do things to promote capitalism. down the middle of the power to turn .. , .. this Lei support of the majority of people, so he wins. the meaning of this conversation, you can see Sheng break some of the traditional view. in particular that the two parties are the minority, the key is for the middle forces, the breakthrough is significant.
Y: I agree that this is a breakthrough. that there are a lot of dogma, have been a major force, etc. ... These doctrines have so far dominated the academic and intellectual. Sheng I The formation of these doctrines to bear the main responsibility for dissemination. because he has been the official historians is that thing. but this man is a trained historian. so I finally retired, there will be a return to go back to that historical reality the.
C: if he gives the mentioned, the first three years of their own, the middle three decades is others, the final years of their own. Wujiang is to say it. This is the official middle of the three decades Historians three decades.
Y: Hu Sheng many scholars still have differences with. He can have some purely their own things, on the modern history, the outcome of his analysis of the reasons the two parties, there is a groundbreaking role. I did not agree with his analysis. but definitely agree with this topic. This is the subject of a lot of weight, the content is very wide. This can also be extended to the development of capitalism in China in this area. In short, Hu Sheng raised this the problem is everyone.
C: Indeed, I have a feeling, historians or broader point, some academics question the fundamental element of the effort seems poor, it significantly reduced the effectiveness of academic research . a lot of controversy completely useless, because the topic itself is false. We discussions on agricultural history discovered this several times, and it seems that scholars also deny it. Sheng said a lot does not count, then there is no academic history value, but the later years of this conversation, it is indeed a profound skill, I am surprised that not many people seem to follow.
Y: then we follow up about it. First, I think the two parties on the Middle Hu Sheng forces to fight on to say that some are not complete, his main speaking, the development of capitalism if the KMT after 1945, you can put the power to fight the middle of the past, because the middle power is spontaneous capitalist road to go. The intermediate power argument is questionable. Kuomintang development of capitalism is what it means is not clear. as if the KMT can not talk about the subjective, the political strategy is the development of capitalism, it is not. I do not see any data to prove that the KMT was limited capital doctrine development. On the contrary, I think that the KMT was in this capitalist development, are in a state of unconscious, as a small, but there is no limit. Logically speaking, if the government is doing nothing to help the most spontaneous forces between the capitalist road ah. So to say some of Hu Sheng internal contradictions. his hand that forces society to the middle (so-called public support), on the other hand he is leaving the middle forces that the capitalist road . and he certainly can not say .. is to support hair and taking the capitalist road, he can only say Chiang is to restrict the development of capitalism.
C: His idea is to find fundamental economic reasons, this is Marx's economic determinism. Economic determinism is a good analytical paradigm, but to apply it, can not be simplified. to the spontaneity of capitalism in terms of (Sheng course, is the premise of this initiative), unless the system of government to vigorously oppose, or can promote the spontaneous development of capitalism. In this regard, Chiang Kai-shek did not have the purpose of limiting the development of the policy. You talk about the backbone of Chiang Kai-limit spontaneity of capitalism on the far-fetched.
Y: We will explain the use of economic reasons, and then will be talked about, there is a difference with Hu Sheng, we use the economic point of view the development of Chinese capitalism is not the reason. Another point, I can not agree over .. the KMT, because the middle power backward .. so .. win. The power of silence in the middle is how to support the Kuomintang to fight ..? not many examples of it. you can not while emphasizing economic reasons, while also stressed What public support.
C: He may think that with public support for economic reasons is one thing, it does not matter. Sheng mean, the conditions for the development of capitalism in China, one anti-feudal, and second, anti-imperialist. no these two, the development of capitalism is not up. Chiang Kai-shek of these conditions do not do it, so the development of capitalism.
Y: This is also justified. feudal What is it? The middle forces do not feudal? anti-imperialist, who says KMT is not anti-imperialist? Moreover how imperialism has become an obstacle to the development of capitalism? these are not make sense. Sheng is the meaning to say to break the dogma, suggesting that people should return to the truth of history about the environmental problems continue. He may be questionable to say the place is not complete, he should completely go.
C: Maybe he's right here or dogma? point of thoroughness that you say it.
Y: I have this from the development of capitalism place to start. the Communist victory on the side of reason, because these are two topics. First, capitalism is developed, should speak the same anti-imperialist, now look at the history of mankind, only that the socialist planning system is the only limit conscious capitalism, there is no other set of policy system is anti-capitalist. because capitalism has always been what human thing in a spontaneous There must be something extra exchange, unless you want to put forward a mandatory central clearing house and bookkeeping, or exchange of the distribution system will grow. this system is the development of capitalism, the key is to see whether it is an open society, whether Open around the world. This is the key shortcomings of capitalist development.
C: I very much agree with this point. opening up is the key. Xiaoping's greatness is not engaged in reform, but the outside world. .. even after He still insists on this point. On this point, I would like to say outside turned a deaf ear, it is that capitalism is actually less advanced countries, the problem of modernization, is a so-called problem of modernity. so it must be concerned with the world system. Open Society is a fundamental social conditions. There is a traditional Chinese village structure of capitalist development, whether there is a big topic. the general opinion is that the traditional land system in China impede the development of capitalism. The views are deeply anchored. so engage in land reform to break the so-called feudal land relations. even the KMT also think so, 50's to Taiwan, Chen Cheng staged a land reform. Many people believe that the land reform in Taiwan has brought the development of capitalism.
Y: We studied the Chinese Agricultural System Change, several conclusions are opposed to this view. I do not start talk about it. Here are just a few conclusions proposed a land system is the efficiency of agricultural production with no relations, it is only with the organization of agricultural production - - Family business related. This is the biological characteristics of agricultural production decisions. So, as long as the business itself does not break the farmers, the efficiency of agricultural production, micro-foundation is complete, simply means where the still provides the basis for the development of micro .49 years ago, there is no policy to break this law is based, but added 55 large-scale collectivization began breaking this basis.
C: here, as long as the micro-foundation of capitalism the basis of the development there. the development of good or bad is another matter.
Y: Another point is the traditional village structure can grow beyond the farmers from the capitalist business organization? There are many commentators say, China no primogeniture, private property rights instability, so the development of capitalist enterprises can not afford a large organization, this is not true. you from the 18th century, 19th century, the development of Shanxi banks can see a has all the features of modern capitalist business organization form already exists. what options you, what business layer and the shareholders of separation matter, what the logistics system, matter, what is performance appraisal you, both. you from into a book, capitalist organization.
C: from the grocery industry in Shanxi banks also can see the structure of this country with an open international trading system seems to have no difficulty with. Shanxi has a grocer, from the south until Russia and Eastern Europe, have a semicolon. to 3 million more than the number of employees, speaking today to get, not won. when transportation and communication conditions, and more bad ah!
Y: is a Ah, the traditional structure is not open to the world trade system problems ah, ah good combination, I do not understand why so many historians say, the traditional structure of capitalist economy can not grow. So I said, my approach is to look at both ends, a look at whether the microstructure is efficient, a merchandise trade network to see whether it is open, there are two necessary conditions for the development of capitalism to possess.
C: but not sufficient, or accurate speaking, the development of capitalism is good or bad is not a sufficient condition.
Y: Yes, that is what we want to talk about later. So the modern history of China's capitalist development, there is a real thing. door opened, it is there, and are not dependent on the so-called limits of those in power or promote the policy in what role. The Hu Sheng is also a problem that modern history, including the history of thought hou theory on this issue are not thorough enough.
C: the history of this issue is indeed a ghost, ending up down everywhere. In fact, if to comment on the nature of Chinese social economy now, then, still can not shake off the shadow. He's behind this thing is a profound ideological chronic illness, and that is that social development is not derived from the private but from a by the country's ills, which add back pain in later refuted the.
Y: So there will be a Kuomintang Hu Sheng development of capitalism that conclusion, it must tear down. In the final analysis, whether the development of the capitalist system depends on the spontaneous exchange of commodities whether the network link with the outside world really. the capitalist economy itself, the specific process, that is, how good or bad development, often depends on the social production and the accumulation of surplus is automatically there for reproduction. If the total reproduction is interrupted, then the capitalist economy, or simply talk about those specific to the development of capitalist enterprise is not up, or not long. This is a sufficient condition for the front speakers. This is the basis of observation of the superstructure from the economic point of view. China in recent The main problems of modern, first open enough that after a process of capitalist reproduction is interrupted too often. not to mention an open question, since the nineteenth century, it has not the court, the door opened. So then, can speak China began to have a capitalist system. However, the development of capitalist economy did not go well, because the war too much. the original dispute about the warlords, but it is a phenomenon. I have to ask why the warlord of war more than it? which came into contact with real things. The big problem is the state system where the problem is not resolved. Republic an established thousands of years of Several Revolutionary Party. Therefore, a successful revolution, Hai Xing, chaos. it automatically changes the elite towards their own identity, in the Republic of this framework, each manage their own original territory. At this time, the reality on the issues raised state system , is the great unification of the Chinese Republic? is a federal republic? this issue came out, a nationwide debate, the results still accounts for the ideological unity of the mainstream. Lao Yuan was alive, the unified way of keeping with the loose, the Lao Yuan town in there, so there is not much of war. Taoyuan, to lead the second revolution did not amount to anything big war. Yuan died, the situation began to change, on the one hand inherited a large Northern Zhujiang bent system, on the other hand, Sun Wen also thoroughly autocratic system of thought to, and later that and excellent military qualities, he also happens to have ambition to unify the world, next to Wu Linan, so the Wu is very much like a man with hidden there, that is Chiang Kai-shek. They look at these people with a significant military event, reversing the state system discussion, gas Taiyan that cursed: Unite Wu, Sun Yat-sen are birds of a feather. In this way, unified The historical mission of the Republic is the only. First Northern a melee, and later joined a Chang Tso-lin, there is no legislation in the time of Yuan rule Marshal is a hit. followed by a north-south match in World War II, the results of Chiang Kai won. After victory, but also a great scale conquest strategy. scale, than any war between warlords. this process, thoroughly exhausted the social surplus capital, a large-scale borrowing, resulting in a comprehensive interrupt the process of social reproduction of capital forward the development of doctrine to be repressed. Here, if the very realistic to acknowledge that the separatist Republic of the reality of the war period, with the in the rule of warlords several large area, there is a good development of capitalism. because it is good thing the warlords themselves. You see Yan Xishan in Shanxi, Chen in Guangdong, Guangxi, Li Tsung-jen not all do a very good thing . Even the canal in Shandong Han also get a lot of interesting cause of rural development, while Chang Tso-lin do a very prosperous in the Northeast. even if you say it is cosmetic, but after all, is in fact done a thing. warlords in their own region is willing to live and work, economic development, so more taxes, we go over the days of the warlords. you see the Red Army arrived in northern Shaanxi, and I saw in the Chronicle from Wentian was established by the Government attaches great importance to attract the border of Shanxi and Gansu businessmen to Northern to do business, because it brings revenue Yeah. when Lin Boqu reports even say: to try to increase the trading process in order to make points more tax, so the requirements of military units to protect merchant trade routes, even with the KMT is not afraid of bad guys to sneak into . between various separatist forces have a delicate balance of fragile, Unite Wu, the KMT broke the balance, so to kill each other. The fragile balance of reason, reason is not a national system to acknowledge it, contain it. If you give each place recognized the legitimacy of a separatist forces, a local power interests and the respect that they are no reason to melee. You want to ride the world that Chang Tso-lin, I do not believe it. Therefore, only the warlords because illegal war. Sheng Sichuan warlord with a time engage in that man came back. Of course the reproduction of capitalism is not to put on the. So in a capitalist economy that is always a loss to the edge, if the loss of most of the enterprises in this situation, how can primitive accumulation it? failure of the negotiations in Chongqing is the same reason. Chiang is to dominate the world at that time, he could not accept the existence of a Border Region Government, can not accept him to lead a ... or really want peace then pour. Mao Tan Zhenlin they even have to find a suitable place Huai'an generation, the central move past, in order to participate in a coalition government. Liu called the policy is a new stage of peace and democracy.
C : At that time, Mao was not certain of winning, even in the summer of 48 years, Mao also spoke with five years down the Chiang regime. then in 46 years, the hair is not sure. then began the civil war in the first six months, see up seems to be barely ... from the current open file to see some of the party, .. was really difficult. So I believe 45,46 years, still did not win .. sure deep down, he would like to engage in a coalition government. negotiations with the KMT, he just wanted a good price. so gross ready to go from Yenan to Huaibei, not a fake. Unfortunately, Chiang Kai-shek did not want to bargain for. this sale fails to talk about. Do not put too much of the ideology There is indeed a time to the popular will, and that is peace. but .. how to look like a rebel. So .. are passive, and he must be carefully negotiated with the Government. Mao and Zhou in the process, before and after the turn to move away room are great. forward to participate in government, slowly it map. backwards, but also a moral clean slate off the notoriety of rebel groups do not want peace. you see week in the evacuation of Shanghai, on third-party Great opportunity, if he be a change on the state system to accommodate ... and other opposition, he has a chance to the great cause of achievement through the ages. can the people do not live up to expectations, you can not. So the problem is the capitalist state system not to develop the fundamental reasons. by old put it, called the superstructure of restricted economic base. This history allows historians to upside down. We should give it back upside down again.
C: You were ah very exciting announcement. But really think about so. from many vertical and horizontal historical comparison of history, this ideology has been They may even be a race between the regions.
Y: So, speaking from the power system, the development of capitalism in China there is no question that many historians is precisely the wrong here. They believe that the driving force of China's development problems of capitalism not resolved, they focus exclusively on here, then dig deep source of history, looking for the development of Chinese capitalism is not the reason. They force the development of the situation with the development of mixed pulse evolution, from real history. In fact, first 20 years of the 20th century, the development of Chinese capitalism is precisely the very smooth. the Western World War and later the First World War, gave China an opportunity, so the good momentum of development. Although the decline in front of the court, behind the gang and since the incident but did not affect any particular private capital development.
C: Even if the Lao Yuan emperor has no effect on it. Revolution and the Second Revolution have not lead to war across the country, so there is no consumption of private capital. state power was very small, the cost is not high, a few corrupt money is taken into account, and did not become a greater financial burden. Lao Yuan in 1914 and had achieved national fiscal balance. visible state power There is not much pressure on their tax to private capital, such a case, to the smooth development of capitalism.
Y: you compare the ensuing melee, to be quite different. the accumulation of private capital to the interrupted. So The problem is not the dynamic mechanism of capitalist development, but the confusion on the state system of government interrupted the accumulation of capitalism (reproduction). had so many discussions on the development of Chinese capitalism is not the reason, what cultural traditions of the matter, what religion Rights What primogeniture friends, and even the national character have come, all without coming to the point, in the end a lengthy understand why, just go to historical nihilism can only go up. if capitalism can not be fundamentally development in China, but also in order to demonstrate the way the Chinese century political choice, it is entirely wrong. We are only choice in the political system to be a big mistake. do you think is their own way around the separatist, you engage in unity, then there is nothing solution. from separatism to reunification by force, to pay the social cost is too high, the depletion of social surplus. At the same time after the formation of this unity, your maintenance costs and extremely high because there is not always a unified force, the Central Government have to maintain a strong force to maintain, and continue to consume the social costs, how you make the development of the capitalist ah. a stretch to say so much, back at the beginning of it. I mean, talk about the development of capitalism there is no direct relationship with the KMT failed. Kuomintang failed reason to find another. These two things with it up, how do you explain the liberation, capitalism .. completely removed, there is no set or what What the middle forces the opposition big thing.
C: the issue has become the state system the way, you can not help. In fact, this relationship with the regime there. Sun Yat-sen never thought the ruling multi-party system and political parties running for the meaning. Actually, he did not touch the core values of the Western political system. that period Chinese intellectual weak ah, do not have to think about this issue. Hu has that mean, then Chu Anping and juggling, and eventually nothing at the end, be designated to this whole question of a symbolic full stop.
Y: Until Lee Teng-hui -----< br> (ha ha)
C: Now this sensitive talk about the bar. next time find an opportunity to specifically talk about the right of Taiwan's political system. Why is there such a person Unite Wu can break the system of government in dispute?
Y: this problem is rather Federated Autonomy, person appears, gentlemen, there is no independent thought suddenly become blind. Unite Wu on the one hand is a typical scholar, on the other hand was the most outstanding military strategist, but he was extremely patriotic, strong anti-Japanese, also opposes Soviet Foreign Mongolia approach. Russia did not fancy to Sun Yat-sen, look at the Unite Wu, instructed the Marine with the Wu Tan. The Wu interesting, he must send troops stationed in Mongolia, there is no negotiated. so some of the features to makes it easy for scholars to have blindly followed the idea of Wu's military uniform. This is indeed the backbone of a backward Wu. And when Wu becomes not the case, this single initiative has been transferred to the south of the Kuomintang. Sun and Su Russia'd reached an agreement, the price is one of Mongolia's Soviet Union recognized the rights and interests.
C: the Sun, so did several things broken. He can not help. you do not take this seriously, he not a few opportunities to really implement such a . This blind obedience to military strongman psychological scholar, Comrade Mao Zedong ruled areas in the number of NLD that is typical among big brother. more extreme, such as Guo, is simply not outrageous. This I think is a psychological blind obedience federalist This is not the right person more than in an inappropriate point in history. as Roosevelt said before, the United States one point in history, there is an appropriate historical figures appear, led the U.S. in the right direction. It is always the opposite direction on both sides of the ocean's accumulation.
Y: form of government on the state system issues and problems related to the Hang Hai also involved after the revolution, to the May Fourth Movement, China faces a major intellectual topics the success of reactionary warlords why politicians can usurp the fruits of the revolution, dominated by state power, which is long plagued the democratic revolutionaries of a major problem. look at this issue, with 45 years later, the KMT is not a battle over it? In addition, 49 years later, after this ... the ruling is not also the reality that The core is what is called by Shoumo and the like, in no democratic revolution, Sun Yat-sen is not, let alone other people. Therefore, I seriously doubt that the democratic revolution qualitative. I agree with your point of view, political issue is a real problem, which directly China was the leading intellectual weakness. the problem is to show that the state system during the so-called democratic revolutionaries and what they call . so there is no usurpation of the problem. it was just sour complain that if the revolutionaries. fact that the KMT is not soon to become a . It stretches to this day lingers in the so-called break the rope and their representatives of Chinese History (including the KMT, including historians) on the Hang Hai revolution and its subsequent phase of the Constraints of power. He died Yuan speech in the summer of 1916, imposed in addition to the three powers of impeachment, the examination of the right, in fact, superfluous. outside of the three powers, are all civil rights. have the status of the people, there are civil rights, restrictions regime is critical. Unfortunately, both Sun and the ignorance of this party.
Y: summary. Chinese traditional social structure in the open door, you grew up in the capitalist system. The system of an engine for development mechanism contained in the Chinese traditional village structures, it is no great social war in the circumstances, can develop after a smooth, the reality is that .49 years ago, there is no law or policy is to suppress this development. capitalist development is not smooth because most capitalist enterprises always at a loss in the war situation, the reproduction of the accumulation process is always being interrupted. and this war with the Chinese political system selection. the development of capitalism can not be used to explain the political system selection history, this is cart before the horse, to reverse Caixing. In this context the reasons for Hu Sheng told Communist victory, can not be established.
C: outcome of the dispute Communist strength, is another topic, I basically that is more independent on the topic itself. I am guessing some of that efficiency with the political parties themselves and the leaders of the organization's strategic options related to speaking in front of our legal system when the party is also mentioned. Ming Zhang in the land reform mobilization mode is also mentioned. Anyway, it could be another issue dialogues right.